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Dungeons and Dragons Wiki talk:The Same Game Test
Inaccuracies How can we be certain the Same Game Test is accurate, when D&D's balance point is a party of four of mixed class? --Jonathan Drain 12:02, September 20, 2009 (UTC) :;Taken from somewhere else I wrote, but relevent here: : :The same thing means that a level X PC should be a CR X creature. So a level 5 Barbarian should be a CR 5 creature. And a level 8 Monk should be a CR 8 creature. And a level 7 Wizard should be a CR 7 creature. With me so far? I didn't go too fast? Alright, let's move on. :Two creatures of the same CR are supposed to be at around the same level of power, and when they directly face each other with neither having an overwhelming advantage (like fighting in a pit full of lava against a fire elemental) the victor should be completely random. That is, on average the victor between the two creatures should be each of the creatures, 50% of the time. With trial combats between the two, one creature should win half the time, and the other should win half the time. Why? Because they're supposed to both be of equal power. This means that the Same Game Test attempts to balance classes according to the DMG. :No, a single monster of a CR equal to the average level of a party is not supposed to be a major threat. : : : :This means that if a party faces a single creature with a CR equal to the party level, they should expend approximately 20-25% of their resources for the day. That's not a very hard challenge, and virtually none of the PCs risks dying. No, a whole party should not win only 50% of the time against a monster that has a CR equal to their party level. It should be a breeze for them. Only when a character is alone against a monster of his CR should he have a chance of dying, and then 50% of the time, since it comes down purely to the dice on who wins and who dies (since the PC is supposed to be of the same CR as the monster, by the book). :Thus, a PC who passes the Same Game Test is balanced according to the DMG. However, not all PC classes are balanced. Monks and Fighters are usually far below in power than creatures of equal CR. Wizards, Druids, and Clerics are often far higher in power than creatures of equal CR. The page you linked in the article that this talk page belongs to tries to explain that. So... yeah. Not only is the "system" right, but it doesn't design anything. Instead, it attempts to detail out the power levels of certain things. It explains how the system works. :;This means that a character should be able to take on an same EL encounter by himself, and win 1/2 the time, since he is supposed to represent he same threat as the encounter. However, CR and EL is out of whack and doesn't really work, so... *shrug* The SGT only really works if you assume that the system works. But if you assume that, then it works great. : --Ghostwheel 12:11, September 20, 2009 (UTC) :: The problem with that argument is that the DMG's not accurate when it says CR = NPC level. The developers admit this: ::